We still need a new engine!

Technical discussion, questions, answers and information
Bill Schmidt
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:17 pm
Location: United States, Kansas, Kansas City

We still need a new engine!

Postby Bill Schmidt » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:26 pm

Last year at this time we were all moaning about the loss of the famed 493 engine. I know that we are contemplating the 600 bike engine, but that may be years away to approval, or it may not even happen. I stumbled across something in some books/internet. Polaris has made a 488cc two-stroke engine for over 20 years now. They made it in liquid and air cooled versions. For some reason, the early ones were listed as a Fuji and later ones as a Polaris? Both engines had identical bores and strokes. For 2008, Polaris has a sled listed with a 488cc engine, liquid -cooled. It is listed as an Indy Widetrack. I live in Kansas City, we know nothing of sleds here, we just do jet skis. Could one of the Northerners that know about sleds research this and find out if the 488cc Polaris is feasible. Imagine, a new legal engine for our cars, that is much cheaper than one made in Austria, and has been manufactured for over 20 years!! Talk about affordable, available in new form, available in used form, available in parts both new and used. One important question would be what the Polaris rep would have to say about the future production of this engine. We will be having the same deadline for SCCA approval this year, which I believe is about June to get something approved for 09. I hope that someone is willing to step up to the plate and check this out. My local Polaris dealer gives me real strange looks when I mention "snowmobiles". I even had one guy say that Polaris didnt make snowmobiles!!!!! Midwesterners, waddya gonna do?????

Chuck McAbee

Postby Chuck McAbee » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:33 pm

Not a Northerner - Not in Snowmobile country...

Google search on Polaris 488 cc Snowmobile has returned the following....


http://www.motorsports-network.com/pola ... snomou.htm

lndy 500 RMK

Riders who love versatility and 500-class power will love the'98 Indy 500 RMK. This is one of the lowest-priced liquid-cooled mountain sleds. Its legendary liquid-cooled 488cc Polaris twin is fitted with a pair of 34mm carburetors and the Polaris ACCS (Altitude Compensating Carburetor System) to help the engine deliver optimum performance at virtually any altitude automatically.

A 15xl33.5-inch track with 1.25-inch lugs ensures outstanding traction in any snow depth. The XTRA-10 front suspension uses nitrogen cell shocks to offer 8.25 inches of travel, while the XTRA- 1 0 rear suspension supplies 10.9 inches of travel, thanks in part to its compression-adjustable lndy Select rear track shock.

The 500 RMK also has an improved P-85 drive clutch, powerful halogen headlights, screens in hood openings to limit snow ingestion, and a new front bumper that's more durable and provides much-improved snowmobility.


Jay Novak
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:08 pm
Location: United States, Michigan, Dearborn

Polaris engine

Postby Jay Novak » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:23 pm

This would be a very acceptable engine I think. I spoke to a big wig at Polaris about 10 years ago when I was researching the Rotax engine deal. At that time they were not interested in supporting additional engines for F500. Perhaps they might be interested now. Someone needs to get in touch with their parts VP.
... Jay Novak
SCCA member for 48 years
A special thanks to all SCCA workers

Dave Phaneuf
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: United States, Michigan,

Postby Dave Phaneuf » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:47 pm

Don't want to start the 600cc bike engine fight again, but just read a
test ln Motorcyclist Magazine.
New 08 Yamaha 600.....redline is now raised to 16,500 rpm.
Better power above 10,000 than last seasons with better
low end as well. Yamaha claims about 50 changes to the
engine.
600cc sportbike engines are outdated every 12 months or less.
Be careful what you wish for.
Dave Phaneuf
BTW...they said it sounds real cool when the inlet tubes switch
to the shorter length at 13,500 rpm!

Jay Novak
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:08 pm
Location: United States, Michigan, Dearborn

new engines

Postby Jay Novak » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:30 pm

BTW, my 600cc bike powered F500 car will be running this year & when we go testing any F500 driver who shows up can take a few laps.
... Jay Novak
SCCA member for 48 years
A special thanks to all SCCA workers

Christopher Eveland
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: United States, Florida, Jacksonville
Contact:

Postby Christopher Eveland » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:21 am

Dave Phaneuf wrote:600cc sportbike engines are outdated every 12 months or less.
Be careful what you wish for.


The FB folks had quite the heated discussion over on apexspeed based on exactly this issue. In addition to the costs, they're (or at least some of them are) also worried about super-exotic engines showing up from semi-race bikes, and what the SCCA safety people are going to think when they start outrunning FA in a couple of years.

-Chris

Rich Carter
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Canada, not USA,

Postby Rich Carter » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:10 am

Well the snowmobile world has pretty much abandoned the 500 class. Other than the odd "wife's" sled no offence to the women racers out there, but why not go with a 400cc bike engine? right off the bat you are giving up 100cc to the sleds that are out there, and there are quite a few 500cc bikes available. Why make the jump to 600?

Spike Engineering
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:43 pm
Location: United States

Postby Spike Engineering » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:47 pm

Rich Carter wrote:Well the snowmobile world has pretty much abandoned the 500 class. Other than the odd "wife's" sled no offence to the women racers out there, but why not go with a 400cc bike engine? ...

I thought this was an interesting idea so I googled 400cc to learn more about the engine choices and the google autofill links were about breast enhancements (boob jobs). Apparently, 400cc is a frequently chosen size because, ...
it's big.

This could be great marketing:

"F500: the sexiest 400cc's you can race."
"F500: it's much more than a handful"
"F500: when you turn it on, it turns you on"
"F500: Not only is it the racer's choice, it's women's #1 choice."

Rich Carter
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Canada, not USA,

Postby Rich Carter » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:16 pm

I am wondering about the argument of cost with MC engines. As far as I can tell most of the engines run in F500 are older engines, why would it not be the same with MC engines? To make a rule that you may run X engine up untill XXXX year would prevent any gains from a modern engine. For example you could allow the Yamaha RD500 although it is a two stroke so basicaly you would just swap to a gear box. The engine is no longer in production and they are quite sought after so it's probably a bad example, but I think you get the point.

Bill Schmidt
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:17 pm
Location: United States, Kansas, Kansas City

Postby Bill Schmidt » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:53 pm

Back in the day, I owned a 77 RD 400, what a rocket! I have even riden the newer liquid cooled RD 350 Kenny Roberts special, but never owned one of those. But, dont have a clue what a RD500 is????

Rich Carter
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Canada, not USA,

Postby Rich Carter » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:09 pm

They made a bunch in the RD series. 125s 200s 350s 400s and 500s. The 500 was out in 84, but it may have been out for a few years I'm not sure. Aparently they were banned from racing because they were so fast and light. The 500 would beat any 1000 4 stroke at the time.

Bill Schmidt
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:17 pm
Location: United States, Kansas, Kansas City

Postby Bill Schmidt » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:44 pm

That model was never available in the states. Europe maybe, but not here.We got the vision and seca 550, 2 strokes were dieing at that point.


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